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Smart Freight Conversations
Episode 30 | The Catalyst Series: From Measurement to Action: Decarbonizing Multimodal Logistics with GEODIS
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How can logistics companies move from emissions measurement to meaningful decarbonization action?
In this episode of Smart Freight Conversations: The Catalyst Series, Andy Golding, Director of Strategic Services at Smart Freight Centre, speaks with Cécile Bray, Global Head of Climate and Environment Programs at GEODIS, about how global logistics providers are approaching decarbonization across multimodal supply chains.
The conversation explores emissions measurement, operational efficiency, modal shift, low-emission solutions, organizational alignment, and the practical steps needed to reduce freight emissions at scale.
Whether you're working in logistics, sustainability, procurement, or supply chain management, this episode offers valuable insights into turning decarbonization ambition into action.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of Smart Freight Conversations, where we share interesting and important insights on freight decarbonization and the drive towards a zero emissions logistics industry. My name is Andy Golding. I am the Director of Strategic Services here at Smart Freight Center, or SFC, as you'll hear us call it, and I'll be your host for today. In this episode, we're exploring how global logistics providers are approaching decarbonization across multimodal supply chains, balancing strategy, operations, and customer demand to drive real emissions reductions at scale. Whether you are working across different transport modes or trying to turn sustainability targets into actionable logistics decisions, this conversation is going to give you practical insights and practical perspective on what it actually takes to move from ambition to execution. Joining me for this discussion is Cecile Bray. Cecile is the global head of climate and environment programs at Geodis. Cecile, welcome. Let's drive into today's episode. And maybe to kick us off, can you tell us a bit about yourself, about Geodis and your corporate and logistics activities?
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Andy. Thank you for inviting me first. So Geodis is a global logistics service provider with the head office in France, close to Paris. We are a subsidiary of SNCF Group, the Railway French company. We are operating in more than 166 countries, a revenue of 10 billion euros in 2025. We have uh four lines of business: uh fret forwarding, European road network, distribution and express, and contract logistics. So um, and more than uh 50,000 people working uh across the globe, mostly in Europe and uh in America. I have been working for Geodis for more than 20 years, uh, first on uh implementing operation at Geodis, and then I joined in 2010 the sustainability department. So starting the first uh carbon footprint assessment, implementing the first carbon uh footprint measurement, uh the first carbon target, and uh since then I've been developing the program and uh on all environmental topics at Jodis.
SPEAKER_00Wow, so you have really been in the decarbonization conversation from the get-go. I would imagine, I would imagine that you have such an interesting font of knowledge on just how this whole story has developed. You know, I still say that decarbonization is a developing story, and you have been there for you must have so much interesting perspective on how the conversation has changed and shifted over the years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's really uh that's the case because uh we started in 2010. Uh in France, we had the obligation to uh report uh greenhouse gas emissions, so we started to develop and implement the first tool. So we have implemented tools since 2012, and we contributed to the first GLECT framework because we wanted alignment between the different region, different transport mode in terms of methodology. It was very important for us to make sure that we can compare and that we can um uh make sure that we can uh um show what are the uh real uh decarbonization uh uh action in measurement.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and uh you mentioned the GLEC framework and how it really is the framework for calculating and reporting multimodal emissions across the supply chain. In a previous episode of this podcast, one of my colleagues actually described it as pre-GLEC framework. It was a little bit like the wild, wild west of emissions accounting because there was no standardization.
SPEAKER_01There was a standard, there was a European standard, there was a French regulation and a European standard. But there was no global no, there was no global uh standard. So the objective was really making sure that there was no other standard being developing and improving what was already existing.
SPEAKER_00So uh amazing. Well, I'm really hoping that some of your deep institutional knowledge uh will come through as we have this conversation. It's really exciting to have you on the couch with us today. Thank you. In terms of market and customer insights, what have been some of Geodis's most meaningful achievements so far in reducing emissions across your freight and logistics operations?
SPEAKER_01So I would say one of the latest uh achievements so far is that we have SPTI targets being validated. So um we have targeted to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 42% by 2030 compared to 2022 under scope 1 and 2, and target to reduce 25% by 2030 compared to 2022 as well. Um why it is a great achievement. Uh first of all, because we have many customers asking us to be uh committed to SBTI. Um, so more than 80% of our global accounts ask us to be committed. So this is really um customer driven. And the other thing is that in order to be able to be committed to SBTI, um we had to have the entire commitment of the organization. So it had to be validated by the board. How are we going to achieve this target? When needs to be implemented in terms of governance, when needs to be uh driven to make sure that it's not only uh having targets, but how do we achieve the target? So that's why that's what uh was a great achievement. And when uh really talking about how to achieve the target, I uh really insist on the facts internally, externally, on the fact that there are five levers to decarbonize. It's not only about shifting to alternative energy, but really five levers. I know that there has been an episode from uh Alan McKinnon about the five levers, but it's really uh very important for us to understand that we need to reduce the amount of energy before shifting to alternative energy. That we need first to reduce the freight kilometer, we need to use the most optimized mode of transport, so we can shift to alternative mode of transport, we need to optimize the assets, we need to have energy efficient assets, and then we can shift to alternative energies. And if I can give some examples on energy uh efficiency, um I see in our measurements that there are some huge gaps still uh between the region, between the country, on energy efficiency. We have been working on energy efficient fleets for I think more than 20 years. Uh we have an uh internal eco-driving school, but we are still seeing progress on the uh fuel efficiency of our fleets. So since uh we have reduced uh by 7% on the last uh three years our fuel consumption, which is uh knowing that we are already better than the market. It's not because we are better on the market, but we are already quite good. So we know when measuring that there are some always some room for improvement in terms of energy efficiency. When I look at the um uh facilities, uh they are also very different uh efficiency in the warehouses, in the hub that we operate in the countries. Uh we've had lots of regulation in France for many years. And the thing is that uh in France we monitor very closely the energy consumption and we see that the facilities in France consume half of other regions in average. And really, that means that there are levels which are available, which are accessible. It's not um a matter of technology. The technology is here, it's really a matter of managing the change and making sure that we measure correctly at our level and making sure that we can uh monitor the energy we consume before uh shifting to alternative energy.
SPEAKER_00What an amazing uh vantage point that you have because you're such a global organization, but you have such a strong history and you have a proof of concept already. You've already proven that it can work. And so you it's almost like you have the recipe, and now how do we take the recipe and how do we apply it in more geographies? Obviously, navigating regional complexities and unique nuance and idiosyncrasy across regions. Coming back to what you mentioned about fuel efficiencies and the fact that you are also still always finding ways to get more efficient. It's a topic that we see a lot at the Smart Freight Center where we can talk about all of the decarbonization opportunities that exist, but actually, fuel efficiency and fuel and fleet management, not only does it give us efficiencies in terms of cost saving, maintenance, etc., but there are massive decarbonization benefits that come with that as well. And it is such a meaningful lever for companies to look at and explore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And we have also um developed an offer uh towards our customers where we can uh, for example, it's not for uh road, but it's for air. We have developed uh an offer, we call it a smart offer, uh where the customer can choose uh which aircraft uh is going to carry his freight. And we have in our system um uh the average value of the fluid consumption of the different routes and different aircraft. It's not using alternative energies, it's only looking at the efficiency of the different existing routes of the different existing aircraft. And uh on some routes, for example, we can see that we can reduce by 50% uh the CO2 emission just of uh one flight compared compared to the others, or not one flight, but one route and one aircraft compared to one other route. So it's really important to have in mind that um uh shifting to alternative energies is of course uh the target, but it's going to take time, it's going to take effort, and there are already some levers which are available today and where we see progress, and uh we don't need to active to wait for so many years. So that's really on what we are working as well, uh, in addition to shifting to alternative energies.
SPEAKER_00What a cool example! The it, you know, and that's just giving people a view of this is what's available, and empowering people to make good choices or make better choices with because if we don't give them the information, how are they supposed to know and make these choices? So I really, really love that. Thank you. I think my next question is why? Sheodas has such a focus, a strong focus on decarbonization, getting to zero emissions. You have an SBTI target. What's the motivation beyond regulation and compliance? Because you said that in France there has been regulation requirements for a long time. But beyond that, why push so hard to be a leader in logistics decarbonization?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would not say that regulation obliges us to decarbonize the regulations, whether the regulation in France or the CSRD in Europe obliges us to be transparent, to uh to communicate about our carbon footprint and to communicate about the action, but it does not oblige us to decarbonize. So it's it's um more the question from the customers asking us to contribute to their common decarbonization. Um we have uh for we have included in our tagline that we should be a provider for a better way to deliver. Um it's also our shareholder, we are a subsidiary of uh SNCF. So it's really uh important for our shareholders that yes, we are uh logistics service providers, we have a fleet of trucks, we are operating all mode of transport, so we should be as well um uh like an example. Um and then the other point which sometimes uh I think is uh forgotten is that uh there is a generation, uh new generation, especially in Europe, expecting companies to be committed. And I know that the logistics sector is not especially a sector which attracts talents. And if we want to attract talents in our organization, we should be a very committed company. So that's also one very important uh aspect of our uh um journey. Um when I talk to uh DHR people in our organization, they say every time new people arrive at Geodis, they give the sustainability report, and it's always very important to explain to the new people arriving at Geodis how committed we are to keep them in our organization and to make sense to uh to what is going to be their contribution to the company.
SPEAKER_00I love that because I mean you also mentioned that customer demand is a big thing. You know, there is pressure from the organizations you work with to decarbonize, but there is also internal pressure. The generations coming into the workforce now care about this, yes, care about investing in the planet. But more so, I love that people are getting the sustainability report. And from the moment you step in the door, or possibly even before you step in the door at Jodis, you're being told this matters to us because it's so important to make the sustainability and the decarbonization conversation part of the nuts and bolts of the organization and not just a team that sits over there and does their thing. But we need everyone, we need sales, procurement, marketing, finance, everybody has to be driving the agenda together. Yeah. Yeah. So you've also mentioned that Geodis works across modes, you're a multimodal organization, you open you operate across air, ocean, rail, and you know, all the all the modes. How do you approach emissions reductions across these different modes in a way that is cohesive for the customers?
SPEAKER_01So, as I mentioned, we are always talking of the five levels to decarbonize. So the five levers mean that the five levels are uh applicable across modes, but also in each mode. And so we uh work with the customers in order to be able to offer alternative solutions as well. One so we are a key player in Europe on uh rail road uh operation. In 2025, I think we avoided 40 40,000 tons of CO2 emissions thanks to shift to rail. So it's very important uh in our target. And and in our uh SBTI target, we have a target in intensity, and the intensity target takes into account the share of the different modes. So it's also important in our target and in the discussion that we are having with our customers to be able to work on alternative uh solutions in terms of uh mode uh solution.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we know that modal shift is also such a valuable lever that we can pull on in the decarbonization journey. Speaking of modal shift and other solutions, renewable fuels, low emission solutions, can you share any concrete examples of how Geodis is implementing low emission solutions such as SAF, alternative fuels, or other innovations?
SPEAKER_01So we have worked on uh all I would say not on many existing low uh emission solutions being SAF, SMF, uh battery electric vehicle. One of the best success uh until now is the solution that we have implemented with a HVO uh on road freight. Uh we have implemented the mass balance system uh in our road freight operation in Europe. And uh the system was verified by external auditor to make sure that we have the traçability, that the volume are correct, that the accounting is correct. So it's uh uh uh the full chain is traceable and verified. And uh thanks to that solution, we have seen an increase in the adoption of uh biofuel by our customers, and we could avoid um 9,000 tons of CO2 last year, thanks to the use of uh HVO uh in uh in the best balance uh process. So we are continuing to expand and develop this solution. Uh so that's uh that's a uh a key success. When we are talking of uh what are the barriers, I think that was your question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what's getting in the way of these uh low emission solutions? So when we're wanting we're wanting to scale renewable fuels and low emission solutions, maybe some what are some of the barriers that you run into?
SPEAKER_01Some of the barriers that we see, especially for battery electric vehicles, are really the TCO. Yeah. Uh and the fact that uh we still fight uh with customers, I would say, to be able to implement solutions on the long term. Because implementing battery electric vehicle solutions, first of all, uh an electric truck is on average uh uh more than twice the price of a diesel truck uh today. So uh being able to develop solutions with battery electric vehicles needs commitment from the customers as well. Yeah. Um, so we need to have commitment and collaboration with the customers. We need to have long-term contracts um uh because otherwise the TCO is not going to be there. And uh yeah, we we need also uh um uh a frame uh uh a policy framework which is stable uh so that we can uh plan in advance. So the the transition is not going to take place uh in one or two years. We need to be able to plan. Yeah. So TCO is a barrier. Sometimes policy is a barrier, sometimes it helps. But uh it's uh very important to be able to plan on a long-term uh these low emission solutions.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and that uh long-term planning is critical, but also a lot of the decarbonization work that we're doing is a developing story. So it's this finding this balance of planning, having the knowledge, having the conversations, having the policy, and having the supporting frameworks that we need to make good decisions and make good plans whilst we're working in an organization, in an environment where the goalposts are moving and the you know the landscape is changing. On that subject, um, one of the last questions that I want to ask you for this episode is coming to the idea of capacity building, social responsibility, and the road ahead. We're asking people to take action. We're asking people to start to do things differently and to actually start thinking about how we move goods differently from the from first principles. If we don't educate people, it's very hard to expect them to come on board and do the thing because they don't know what they're doing. So maybe you want to share a bit more about uh training or internal alignment and the work that you do in capacity building. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um we have developed internal training uh for a few years now. So we have developed, so I don't know whether this is known outside of France, but we have developed a kind of workshop which is called the Climate Fresque. And the Climate Fresque is an exercise, uh a workshop which which lasts three hours, where you explain uh where you discover it's a collective intelligence uh where you understand the reason for the climate change, what are the impacts of the climate change, and when and where you work on what to do to reduce the impact of climate change. So the climate fresque is uh a workshop that we have developed internally. I think that we have more than 1,000 people which have been trained. Amazing. We did the climate fresque uh two years ago with uh the entire top executive committee. It was around 200 people. So we had 200 people on uh I don't remember 15 tables doing this collective workshop, understanding what are the reasons for climate change and what do we need to do and how do we need to act. So um it's something which is very important, and in addition to that, we also have e-learning modules that we have developed, uh which are available in eight languages. Uh so we have a climate school which is called Time for Action, and this climate school explains the same uh what do we need to do, uh, what are the reasons for climate change, and how can we act uh in our daily life and in our daily operation. And it is really important for us to make sure that um uh our staff, our people in every region at Geods understand why we are doing that. Uh and that we are really it's it's the call, it's the call for action that we are uh having during this uh this training section.
SPEAKER_00So um and that's so important because that is how again we make sustainability part of the nuts and bolts of the organization, not just a kind of thing that we add on top. And I love that. That's a really incredible initiative. Thank you for sharing. Okay, Cecile, lightning round, one sentence sum-up. If somebody listening to this episode wants to get started on decarbonization, they know that it needs to happen, they know they need to take action. What is the one thing that you would encourage them to do?
SPEAKER_01I don't know if there is one thing. So we always say uh you don't manage what you don't measure. So, yes, it starts with measuring and really measuring and really challenging the figures. Uh, not spending too much time because it can take a lot of times. So, really measuring and really challenging the figure and really then act time for action because there are solutions available today. We do not have to wait to implement uh reduction action. Uh, solutions are really here. So it's a question of engaging uh the entire organization to be able to reduce emissions. So solutions are available, so it's really time for action.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I couldn't say it better myself. It's really time for action. Cecile, thank you so much for this episode or for spending time on the couch with me. I've really enjoyed learning about your journey, the work that you're doing, and I think also just hearing the very practical steps that Shiotis is taking. The solutions exist. As you've just said, there is no good reason to wait. There is no need to reason there's no need to not take action. Thank you for sharing some of your story with us. If you'd like to learn more about how you can take action in decarbonization, you can find a lot more information at academy.smartfreightcenter.org where we offer courses and other free educational resources. Thank you for listening to this episode of Smart Freight Conversations. If you found the episode valuable and if you know of other people in your organization or your network who could benefit from this listen, please consider sharing the episode. Until next time, we look forward to continuing to drive progress towards zero emissions logistics. Thank you for listening.